Control Risk? At What Cost?

Chris Denny is Founder and President of The Engine Is Red, an integrated creative agency which Chris claims functions more like a startup than like a traditional agency. The company provides a variety of services—branding, campaign work, and a lot of interactive and digital work—but it has eliminated the classic methods agencies use to try to control the risks and variables inherent in creative work—timesheets, project plans, change orders, scopes of work, contracts, and retainers.

The result?

Changing the way business is done changes results . . . Chris found that when his clients and agency were freed from old marketing paradigms, interactive creative collaboration resulted in bolder, more innovative work with less risk.

Chris says,

What does it take to produce risky and exciting and high-quality ideas? We’ve learned a lot about the sense of community and culture, the security and safety to explore dangerous things.

In this interview, Chris offers a number of operational insights he has discovered over the years. He believes that relationships are key to the quality of work produced . . . it’s not just a matter of talent.

The major cause of poor client relationships? Rigidity. Big ideas only break through when there is freedom and a trust in flexibility, when the client and agency representatives can sit down and hash things out from the beginning.

He says,

Find the right balance of predictability and safety, of freedom and autonomy, and focus on trust and empowerment. When things go wrong, be an educator and an encourager, not a critic – The more people as leaders focus on that, the more teams thrive and the more clients thrive. It makes all the difference.

At times, hashing things out does not produce expected results. One client wanted to expand its business of repurposing older buildings. In working with the company’s full leadership team, The Engine is Red discovered that a great barrier to “adaptive re-use” is not that people need to be informed about it . . . the real problem is that it is difficult to quickly estimate renovation costs. The company didn’t need a marketing campaign—it needed a tool. The Engine is Red worked with the company’s estimating team to prototype a product and ended up building a mobile application that fully specs cost, size, and occupancy of an adaptive reuse project—in under a minute.

The whole process of examining a campaign, pivoting to a product, and launching that product was completed in 10 weeks . . . on time and on budget—and all done with the original paperwork.

And why put an agency in Minneapolis? This was an early decision for the company, based on locating where there was a wealth of creative talent. Chris describes Minneapolis as “one of the most vibrant creative cultures in the country right now.”

Chris can be contacted on The Engine Is Red on Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram, on the company’s website at:,, or by email at: He encourages listeners to stop in The Engine is Red’s studios, either in Sonoma County or in Minneapolis.

Continue reading “Control Risk? At What Cost?”

Re-wiring Attitudes and Behaviors, Embracing Change, and Winning New Markets

Bree Groff is CEO of NOBL Collective, a global change agency that helps quickly-growing startups or huge legacy organizations seeking to grow or scale to negotiate change. NOBL does not provide the strategy, or the brand work. Instead, it looks at decision-making, communication, meeting patterns and day to day interactions—the company’s culture—and collaborates closely with the company to steer the “human side of things,” embed the capacity for change and the feeling that change is productive and energizing, and help its clients get good at change—which is a critical competitive advantage—all without losing their “core.”

In this interview, Bree talks the “critical mass” for companies . . . when the number of employees requires new ways of doing things. She references Dunbar’s number, which is a rough measure of the upper limit of loose relationships a person can maintain . . . and still remember people’s names. Organizations reaching certain sizes often need to develop new ways of working in order to “move to the next level.”

How do you change large corporate cultures? Bree has found that, if you can effect behavioral and mindset changes at the individual level—even with very large organizations—and by repeating this enough times, change the organization to what it wants to become—more agile, more digital, more collaborative, more authentic, more engaged . . . and ultimately, more profitable.

Meeting-heavy company cultures tend to have a lot of ad hoc status meetings. Bree feels meetings should be intentional, with a “strong cadence around what you’re talking about with what frequency.”

NOBL published Team Tempo,, a guide to effective meetings. Bree recommends companies consider quarterly team retrospective meetings to evaluate the company’s internal environment and strategic sensing meetings, where teams discuss customer, industry, and technology changes that may impact the company.

How a decision is made can have a major impact on decision quality . . . and acceptance. After numerous client queries of, “How do I make a decision?”, NOBL developed a “Decider app,” available as a Slackbot at or as a web version at This tool asks a series of short questions and then recommends and defines the decision-making process that best fits the circumstances, highlighting the process’s advantages and disadvantages. The decision-making methods include: autocratic, avoidant, consensus, consent, consultative, delegation, democratic, or stochastic.

Bree can be reached on her company website at, on LinkedIn at /in/bree-groff-94281136/

Continue reading “Re-wiring Attitudes and Behaviors, Embracing Change, and Winning New Markets”

Advanced Digital Sales in the Middle of the Funnel

Bob Afsari, CEO of Campaign Creators, a Platinum HubSpot Partner, started his career with “a love for business development and a love for sales.” Disillusioned after companies he worked for consistently failed to deliver the products he sold, Bob decided to start his own company so he could control the whole process.

Bob presented his story, “Shattered by Embezzlement: How We Rebuilt Our Agency to Become Happier, Healthier, and More Profitable,” at HubSpot’s Inbound 2018.

In this interview, Bob provides a brief overview of his presentation, describing how a trusted employee diverted $330,000 in payroll taxes to her personal account over a period of 5 years, how the theft was not discovered until his accountant called the IRS, and the actions Bob had to take to save his company and avoid personal financial ruin. He provides precautions to prevent such embezzlement—a hard lesson learned.

To save his company, Bob developed a laser focus on his company’s mission, slashed its services, learned to say “no” to clients who weren’t the right fit, and made a huge number of changes that had only before been “under consideration.” His strategy, born of fear and desperation, worked.

Bob notes that the wealth of information on the internet, the credit crisis of 2008, and “the millennials” have transformed the way that consumers make purchases—they no longer want to be “sold.”

Today, Campaign Creators helps companies craft and frame consumer communications in a way that is personal, relevant, meaningful, and, respectful of how 21st century consumers want to receive marketing communications. It implements sophisticated lead nurturing strategies, digitizes sales processes, and turns the typically-outbound middle-of-the-funnel (consideration stage) sales cycle and sales journey into an automated, custom, curated educational process. Middle-of-the-funnel marketing automation workflows and the wealth of information provided to potential clients empowers them to autonomously determine their fit with a company and its products.

Bob can be reached at his company’s website: or on LinkedIn at

Continue reading “Advanced Digital Sales in the Middle of the Funnel”

Changing the Marketing Game: Technology and the Gig Economy

Daryn Smith is the Cofounder and Director of Mpull, a full-service inbound marketing-technology agency serving South African companies and, to a greater extent, partnering with and supporting agencies from around the world. Mpull has 50 employees as of this interview and is a Diamond HubSpot Partner.

Working together at Verizon, Mpull founders, Daryn Smith and Graeme Wilson saw a huge waste of marketing dollars. Six years ago, they started Mpull with the dream of having a Software as a Service business, providing a software for managing marketing and tracking return on investment. The company pivoted into an agency when they discovered that this type of product was already offered by a number of MarTech providers. Software as a service still remains a long-term goal.

In this interview, Daryn talks about technology’s impact on marketing . . . many brands are replacing work that agencies used to do for them with marketing technology software . . . and getting faster, better results with more scalability. The result? Fewer brands are interested in signing long-term retainers.

Daryn presented “”Why Agencies Need to Pay Attention to the Gig Economy” at HubSpot’s Inbound 2018 conference. In a gig economy, you only pay for what you need, when you need it, and where you need it. Daryn sees a big trend in this direction. So who needs it?

Much of what marketing agencies have done in the past can be done today with software . . . better, faster, and with greater scalability. With software “lifting” much of the load, many brands are starting to build “in-house agencies” The result? Fewer brands want to sign long-term retainers with marketing agencies.

But, just as one marketing agency rarely excels in all aspects of marketing, software cannot do everything.

When Mpull started getting “a lot of small project requests,” the administrative overhead made an hour project massively complicated and expensive. Daryn realized the growing gig economy needed an easy way for agencies to engage with brands on a gig basis, with integrated payment processing and administrative functions, brand-to-service provider matching, and the ability to start work immediately

Because Mpull works with a lot of agencies, Daryn was also aware that highly-skilled agency staff still pull salaries, even when they are “on the bench.” How could Mpull give its agency partners around the world an additional way to make revenue when their employees weren’t busy?

Daryn describes Mpull’s “On The Bench” platform, which manages gig administrivia overhead, enables agencies to engage in the gig economy, and provides agencies with “burst capacity” when needed. He talks about the policies needed to protect your client base, managing rates to prevent commoditizing services and a consequent “race to the bottom,” and how to maintain a base of recurring revenue.

Daryn can be reached by email on the company website:, at @darynsmith on Twitter, and on Linked at ( The “On The Bench” website is:

Continue reading “Changing the Marketing Game: Technology and the Gig Economy”

Proof of Performance: Good Work Breeds Opportunity

Dan Altenbernd, COO and Partner of H2M, works with clients to align objectives with allocated marketing budgets. He estimates that 75% of his company’s clients have never worked before with a marketing agency and 75% of his clients are from outside the Fargo area. His company provides key marketing strategy development and tactical deliverables based on a client’s true needs.

Faced with so many marketing “newbie” clients, H2M has a newbie on-boarding process to help clients feel comfortable, using in-depth conversations to discover the client’s pain points, expectations, and objectives. H2M requires clients to define goals clearly and works with them to determine how effectiveness will be measured—not by views or click-throughs—but by proof of performance metrics such as growth percentages. The company strives to deliver intellectual property in a way that tangibly “answers the client’s questions.” Proof of performance is almost a company mantra.

In this interview, Dan speaks of due diligence as being critical for clients that are selecting their first agency—look at the work of agencies under consideration, randomly call clients listed on their websites, and find an agency with that will be comfortable to work with. H2M only works with clients with whom it is comfortable –without contracts!

Trained as a graphic designer, Dan started his career setting type by code in a print shop, providing services as a graphic designer, and as a bartender/waiter . . . all at the same time. He fell into advertising as a traffic manager, scheduling and learning marketing operations. A couple of hops later, Dan ended up at H2M.

Dan’s partner, David Hanson, H2M’s CEO, knows marketing strategy. Dan thrives on being out here, growing relationships, finding new opportunities, and understanding businesses and their challenges. The company’s internal culture is focused on supporting employees, but also allowing broad autonomy, with open paid time off and untracked vacation time. What matters? Relationships and the consistent quality of the work—and not slacking off efforts for clients who “have been around a while.”

Dan offers a few life lessons to ponder. He believes ego has no place in growing true relationships. He warns people and companies to “not believe your own press.” He emphasizes the importance of honesty and transparency in retaining clients, growing friends within the business, and promoting success.

Dan can be reached on his company website at h2m.bizor by email at

Continue reading “Proof of Performance: Good Work Breeds Opportunity”

When We Need to Use the Funnel to Feed the Flywheel

Ingunn Bjøru, COO of Avidly’s inbound line and Country Manager for Norway, is based in Oslo. A very recent merger of four former HubSpot Diamond agencies, Avidly is now the world’s largest inbound agency and HubSpot partner. With additional offices in Stockholm, Sweden, Aarhu, Denmark; and “all over Finland,” Avidly enables growing companies to use one agency to promote their products across four Nordic countries, with a fifth (unnamed) country to be added in the near future. The increase in staff from the merger brings the company an increased breadth of critical skills.

The merger of four companies in four countries has created some expected and unexpected problems. For instance, outsiders are often not even aware of the geographies of these countries and frequently assume that the Scandinavian countries are culturally similar. What to do with “all the staff” has been less of a problem since employees have taken advantage of the opportunity to redefine themselves and choose their areas of concentration.

Ingunn discusses how Avidly is involved in HubSpot’s Sales Enterprise launch, how that product will enable larger companies to convert their sales teams to inbound, and the product’s growth strategy. She suspect’s that it will be easier to add sales functionality to HubSpot’s Sales Enterprise Module than it will be for sales management software SalesForce to integrate marketing into its product.

Ingunn presented “Recipe for Growth: How We Became the World’s Largest Inbound Agency” at HubSpot’s Inbound 2018. She talked about cultural differences, recruitment, and forecasting.

One cultural difference is the concept of Tillitsbasert ledelse. Tillitt is trusting somone, basert is basing it on something and ledelse is management. Management trusts the team it has hired . . . inspiring the team to rise to the challenge and deliver. New employees don’t have to earn trust. Trust is implicit in the hiring and is only taken away when they fail.

Ingunn mentions how it is always difficult to know when to hire new staff. She described how Growit Group, a company that helps agencies grow, built Avidly’s budget and supplied a template using sales metrics to trigger hiring and identifying the roles to fill at various sales levels.

She endorses service level agreements as a way to manage intracompany and client expectations and compares and contrasts HubSpot’s non-transactional marketing flywheel with the marketing funnel. In particular, Ingunn notes that the flywheel model, which is built on the idea of maintaining long term customer relationships, is not appropriate for businesses selling a one-time product. Ingunn is concerned that, while marketing professionals migrate from the funnel to the flywheel, they will come up with too many “versions” and confuse the market.

The Avidly company website is and Ingunn can be reached on LinkedIn at

Continue reading “When We Need to Use the Funnel to Feed the Flywheel”

Amanda Slavin, CatalystCreativ (New York City, NY)

Amanda’s company started as a community design firm and morphed over time to what they are today, a combination experiential agency/brand consulting firm. The company activating customers into brand loyalists, into ambassadors, into advocates, so that they can grow their business, helping brands transition passive customers to active participants in shaping their brand’s story.

Amanda’s Dad, a big sports fan, forced her to watch every sport when she was growing up. Her background is in the sports bar industry, Between the two, she knows the value of sports in community-building.

When the LA Raiders transitioned to Las Vegas, CatalytCreativ designed the opening ceremonies to feature local residents. Las Vegas is unique in that it has only 2 million permanent residents and hosts 40 million visitors a year, and the transition came after the tragic October 1, 2017 concert massacre. The message of the program was that the Raiders were not asking anything from the community, but were there to support it. The Raiders gave LA something to rally around. This experience illustrates what Amanda calls the highest level of audience engagement, “when your personal values and beliefs align with the brand’s message.”

She believes the Golden Knights hockey team and the raiders have had a unifying effect on Las Vegas, helping “to build internal community, and also external community with the rest of the country,” because now Las Vegas is “part of a larger story.”

Amanda presented “The Most Important Way to Engage Your Audience and How It Impacts Your Bottom Line: The 7th Level” at HubSpot’s 2018Inbound Conference. The 7 levels is a framework for goal-setting, , business, and customer connection.

That strategy was from the foundation of these 7 levels. The highest level is called literate thinking. It’s when your personal values and beliefs align with the brand’s message

1) Disengagement is when you’re avoiding or idle from a task

2) Unsystematic Engagement. It’s when you’re confused by the messaging

3) Frustrated engagement is when the customer wants to engage, but is distracted by

These first three levels are about finding your customers and building trust. The next three are about amplification, which involves asking things of these people.

4) Structure-Dependent Engagement, such as “comment below,” “give me your email,” “like my post.” And social media marketing campaigns

5) Influencer marketing—piquing someone’s interest to get them to engage with your brand.

6) Critical Engagement—transforming someone to set goals and transform their own lives.

7) Literate Thinking—your personal values and beliefs align with a brand’s message delight. How do you delight customers?


Details on Seventh Level strategy ( field guide, worksheet, and blog) are available on


. CatalystCreativ on LinkedIn. (No “e” at the end; we creatively spell it.) Amanda Slavin on LinkedIn, and then I’m @ajslavin on every other social platform. The company website is

Continue reading “Amanda Slavin, CatalystCreativ (New York City, NY)”

Down the Social Media Rabbit Hole: Fine-Tuning for Your Target Audience

Dean Browell is Co-owner and Executive Vice President of Feedback Agency, a market research firm that uses hands-off observation of online behavior coupled with behavioral analysis by data scientists (psychologists, sociologists, and anthropologists). When people are in focus groups or other situations where they are aware of being observed, their behavior changes. By not engaging their audience, the digital ethnography research team is able to get a rich body of authentic, unadulterated data.

In the discovery phase, Feedback’s digital ethnography research team works to understand a client’s audiences and where they are going. (FaceBook, Twitter, YouTube, forums, niche message boards . . . and deep into sub-communities) The team then observes behaviors, identifies preferences and channels, assesses group discussions, actions, and sentiments, and evaluates all of this existing data to discern what “makes people tick” and what causes them to make decisions. Through the sheer volume of information, the research team can identify trends and quantify and qualify word-of-mouth impressions.

Using that information, Feedback may test responses to different messages. For example, they may place 70 small-space FaceBook ads and be able to report back to the client the 4 top-performing imagery types and messaging types. Feedback is not involved in the marketing implementation . . . they hand over the data to their agency customers for use as implementation guidelines and provide clients with detailed, research-based action plans for increasing customer engagement and sales.

Dean has found that human beings are far better at detecting meaning. Where computer programs may track words and bot can make decisions about whether words are positive or negative, humans can pick up the nuances of sarcasm and humor . . . and provide a far more accurate view of audience sentiment.

Dean recommends a couple of resources for targeted searches. Board Reader( searches forums and message boards, either by content or by forum focus. He also talked about local message boards, such as City-Data, which can provide a wealth of information about the selected community.

Dean can be contacted on LinkedIn at in/dbrowell/. His company’s website is

Continue reading “Down the Social Media Rabbit Hole: Fine-Tuning for Your Target Audience”

How Small Agencies Can Climb to the TOP: Focus, Training, and Collaborative Journeys – The INBOUND Series

Pete Nicholls, Director of HubDo, the only 100% wholesale-only Platinum HubSpot Partner, talks about his company’s purpose: to help smaller (1 to 5 employee), inbound (mostly B2B) agencies grow and to deliver client success. As a partner for HubSpot partners, HubDo has identified areas where small and start-up agencies typically have problems—marketing the agency, the sales process, service delivery, and growth issues, such as hiring staff and managing finances—and provides the tools, programs, services, and a collaborative “incubator” to nurture these agencies as they grow.

HubDo offers 1) Hubspot Certified Training, 2) HubDoClub, a community of SilverPeak graduates (explanation to follow), with access to a library of recorded MasterClasses and discounted PandaDoc (document automation) services, and 3) several HubDo Services. By “grouping” a lot of smaller clients, HubDo is able to offer services that HubSpot cannot scale at the individual, small agency level—full-time people working with small agencies one-on-one would be inefficient and prohibitively expensive.

Pete discusses why his company adopted the Hubspot platform: HubSpot’s completeness of vision regarding inbound marketing, its ability to execute, its dedication to R&D investment, and the quality of its software. HubSpot offers an integrated suite of CRM, Marketing Hub, Sales Hub, and Service Hub software, popular enough that third parties have built ancillary software around the HubSpot platform. Agencies may use the stripped-down, HubSpot-branded components for free for an unlimited amount of time. Beyond that, pricing is tiered, based on supported functions. Startups can apply for scholarships to accelerate their marketing and sales traction. HubDo works exclusively with HubSpot partners or those considering the HubSpot platform.

Pete presented “How to Grow Your Small Agency: Pro Tips from the Silver Peak Team” at HubSpot’s Inbound 2018. The biggest takeaway from this compilation of HubDo’s Silver Peak participant responses is that marketing agencies often fail to market themselves.

HubDo’s 9-month Silver Peak program provides a roadmap, instructor-led sales education, weekly coaching sessions, and collaborative group dynamics to empower small agencies to become HubSpot Silver partners . . . or even to go beyond that. To qualify as a “Silver” HubSpot partner, the first level of recognized accomplishment, an agency must sell services that generate as least $1,125 in monthly recurring revenues for licenses sold within the past year. The next Silver Peak team is scheduled to start its climb in April 2019. For more information about joining the “expedition,” see:

Pete observes that LinkedIn has proven to be a very effective B2B channel, and the number one channel for agencies. The marketing channel that works best all-around? The human channel.

Pete also talks about LinkedIn’s social selling index, which measures how effective you are at establishing your professional brand, finding the right people, engaging with insights, and building relationships—and provides tips on improving your score. LinkedIn’s Social Selling Index can be found at: Pete stresses the importance of focus by noting that, when an agency can recognize and say “no” to a “bad fit” client, the universe tends to bring them the right kind of clients.

Pete can be contacted on Twitter @hubdo, on LinkedIn at: His company’s website is:

Continue reading “How Small Agencies Can Climb to the TOP: Focus, Training, and Collaborative Journeys – The INBOUND Series”

Analytical Creatives Solve Problems – The INBOUND Series

Krista Ankenman, Cofounder and Vice President of Client Services at Tank New Media, a digital marketing agency that treats the internet as an activity hub, with everything else marketing pouring into the website. Tank New Media became a HubSpot partner in 2015 and works primarily with manufactures in the B2B world.

experience how clients’ customers are experiencing their brand

sales how are the messages resonating with their customers

service how is their service department dealing with customers as they come in

most of our clients have high touch sales process high value sales process potentially repeatable after engagement

custom mix of the pieces that we feel are going to get them traction and get them going to meet their goals

building trust, so they let you do some of those experimental things that could really work great – but they’ll also forgive you if they don’t. If you have those solid relationships, you have a little bit more flexibility there.

Analytical creatives, problem solvers


consistent, are giving the same brand messaging as they got initially from the website or from the ads

in a lot of industries, when you jump that barrier from sales into service, the brand voice almost always shifts massively.

from sales and marketing to service? Then get all those people together and say, these things work together. It’s not siloed. It’s not just one component piece. Everything connects. Can we make all of these make sense together? That’s really how we’ve been attacking it so far.


Krista Ankenman presented, “Growth Stacking: How to Scale Healthier Accounts, Maximize Value, and Deliver Results,” at HubSpot’s Inbound 2018. She emphasized the need to”go deeper” with clients, nurture those relationships, and build trust . . . and to “connect the dots” across different departments so that brand messaging from the marketing, sales, and service department is consistent. Siloes don’t work.



LinkedIn. Feel free to reach out to me and connect with me. Or email me at


what can they do to help make sure that their equipment is always up and running? Can they get ahead of the game? Can they pre-sell them on component parts kits or something along those lines to help smooth out that process?

ow do all of the components connect, from sales and marketing to service? Then get all those people together and say, these things work together. It’s not siloed. It’s not just one component piece. Everything connects.


The Sale Does Not Stop with the Sale

Continue reading “Analytical Creatives Solve Problems – The INBOUND Series”