The Power of Thought-leader Podcasting

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Matt Johnson is Founder and CEO of Pursuing Results, a podcast production agency that works with emerging thought leaders – business coaches and consultants. Using a detailed process, Pursuing Results helps clients launch their brands, executes and distributes its clients’ weekly video podcasts, and promotes thought-leader business growth. His “specialized assembly line” produces consistently high-quality, on time podcasts. Matt focuses on a narrow product/client niche, because, he believes that, of all the content marketing things he used to do, podcasting produces the most growth and the most leads for his clients. 

Matt believes that, in order to influence people to trust you and to take action, podcasts have to be structured in a particular way. In this interview, Matt outlines three things that turn a podcast from entertainment into a platform for leadership:

  1. Seeing is Believing: Podcasts should be conversations with other influential people. When people see that you are recognized as a leader in your “area,” they will believe you are a leader in your area.
  2. Share Client Successes: Feature conversations around your (past or current) client’s successes. Put at least some focus on how the work you are doing (or have done) for them contributes to their success. 
  3. Go solo: Matt says, for a thought leader, having a podcast is akin to leading a church. If you are a leader in that church, you should be capable of delivering a sermon in that church.

How to develop solo topics? Matt works with his clients to help them identify their beliefs, values, and opinions – breaking down their holistic viewpoint into small chunks, each of which can be used as a solo episode topic. The sweet spot is to “go solo” every third or fourth episode.

How to keep the podcast momentum going and score some “quick wins”:

  1. Be strategic about whom you interview – make sure you have a good message-to-market fit
  2. Genuinely enjoy the interview conversations and the relationships you are building with your guests 
  3. Work behind the scenes to turn those relationships into a strategic referral network.

Matt attributes a good part of his (and his client’s) podcast success to the system he built around the process – and provides tips on strategic process-building and building checklists. He recommends that people who are considering starting a podcast . . . get interviewed themselves to nail down their message and what they want to talk about. How to get featured? A good start would be Matt’s website at: http://howtogetfeatured.com.

Matt can be reached on his company’s website at: http://pursuingresults.com, where listeners can learn about his production service; on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/microfamous/, and on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/microfamous/. Matt will be launching a book, Microfamous™ in the near future.

 

ROB: Welcome to the Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m your host, Rob Kischuk, and I am joined today by Matt Johnson, Founder and CEO at Pursuing Results based in San Diego, California. Welcome to the podcast, Matt.

MATT: Thanks, Rob. Super pumped to be here.

ROB: Fantastic to have you here. Why don’t you start off by telling us a little bit about Pursuing Results and what your focus is?

MATT: It’s funny you use the word “focus.” We’re very focused. We sell one thing to one type of person. We’re a podcast production agency, and we work with typically emerging thought leaders – so business coaches and consultants – and we’re helping them launch a podcast and a brand into the market that will grow their thought leader business. Then behind the scenes, we’re typically executing a weekly podcast for them that’s recorded on video and then distributed to all the usual places.

We’ve got a team of about 10 people and 3 interns that help us. Everyone’s like a specialized assembly line, basically. It was all based around scratching my own itch. I wanted clients to be able to do the same thing that I built for myself, which is show up, hit record, have awesome conversations, and walk away and not have to worry about any of the details. So that’s what we do.

ROB: To dial into that a little bit, it sounds like you started a podcast, you built a system for having a podcast, and then you decided to turn the system into a product and a business.

MATT: Yeah, I did. It didn’t necessarily start out like that. What I did is I started a podcast, and then I started doing freelance marketing consulting for thought leaders. One of them, in fact, I ended up being a partner in the coaching/consulting business that we were building, and what I found is that there was a lot of different stuff I could do in content marketing, but launching a podcast just worked. The clients didn’t even have to necessarily understand how it worked or all the details. They could literally just show up and have conversations, and if I structured the podcast right, it would just kind of work.

So, I decided I need to shut down all this other stuff I’m doing for marketing consulting and just do the thing that’s actually responsible for the most growth and the most leads,” and that was podcasting. So I narrowed it down to just one package for that one type of person instead of trying to do 17 different things for that one type of person, because there was really just that one thing that I felt like was the most effective thing I could do.

ROB: What does it look like to structure a podcast “right,” as you say? Lots of people think they want to start a podcast, or do start a podcast, and then quit for reasons they probably can’t even fully articulate after three, five, or ten episodes. What does it look like to structure it correctly?

MATT: Keep in mind, we’re talking about thought leaders. If you are the type of person that wants to start a podcast to learn, I think it’s great to start up an interview podcast and go out and find the guests that you want to talk to and just interview them.

But if you’re a thought leader and you’re wanting to build a coaching, consulting, or an agency business where people are looking to your advice and they actually take your advice – which is crucial. In the agency world, we need our clients to actually listen to us and take our advice. So if that’s you and you have to actually influence people to take action and you have to influence people to trust you, to let you take the action that you’re recommending in order for them to get results, a podcast has to be structured a little bit differently.

What we’ve found is that it has to be a mix of three things. Number one, there has to be conversations with other influential people, because people need to see you being recognized as a leader in your space to actually believe that you’re a leader in your space. So that’s number one.

The number two thing is that you have to feature conversations around successes that you’re helping people get. Those could be current clients, past clients, or other people in your team that are talking about the work that you’re doing for clients. Some element of sharing success or a testimony.

Then the third thing is solo episodes. This is something that I neglected in my own business and my own podcast for a long time, and finally the light bulb went on and I realized that, for a thought leader at least, having a podcast is like having a church. If you never do a solo episode, it’s like never getting up in your own church and delivering a sermon.

Once that light bulb went on, I’m like, it doesn’t make any sense at all for us to not be doing more solo episodes. So ever since then, I started doing more on my podcast. I made it in the rotation. It’s every third to fourth episode. And I started encouraging my clients to do the same thing.

I started to hear that from some of the other bigger podcasters as well. Tim Ferriss, Lewis Howes, guys like that were hearing from their audience, “Hey, I love the interviews, but why can’t I hear from you guys more?” So all those guys started to see that around the same time, that their audience was asking for more of them, and started to do more solo episodes.

To me, that’s the right mix. It’s those three things that actually turn a podcast from more than just a show or an entertaining hobby or whatever into a platform for leadership.

ROB: Structuring a solo podcast for a client of yours sounds like a challenge. It sounds almost like the process of helping somebody write a book. How do you help them condense a topic to a point where they can talk about it and be interesting on their own?

MATT: I think it starts with – behind the scenes, one of the things we help our clients do is figure out what their beliefs, values, and opinions are. Essentially, it’s like breaking their entire point of view down into smaller chunks. Each of those smaller chunks is a good topic idea for a solo episode.

Once they realize that “Hey, these are the things that I already believe,” it’s not so much that we’re getting them to try to create content. We’re basically giving them a mechanism where they can look at a sheet of paper that this 10 or 15 of the things that they already believe and already talk about on a daily basis and reminding them to talk more about those few things.

For our clients that are in the thought leadership space, they’re not necessarily afraid of the camera; they’re not necessarily afraid to turn on the record button and talk. It’s a matter of equipping them with the right reminders and the right structure to get them to do that. I don’t think that’ll be the case with every – like if you’re a marketing agency, that’s not the case with every client. Some people just don’t want to show up and hit record, and you may have to write blog articles and things like that for them in lieu of that.

It doesn’t necessarily work with everybody, but that’s part of why we zeroed in on the thought leader market, because we wanted people that weren’t afraid to create content. If you’re a content marketing agency, that’s one of the biggest struggles, just getting the content out of the client’s head. We essentially chose to go after a market that has more trouble shutting up than they do in starting to talk. [laughs]

ROB: That seems like a good key to customer retention as well. Why do you think it is that many people who start a podcast soon stop the podcast?

MATT: Consistency is not easy, but I do think one of the things that makes consistency a little bit easier, especially over the 12 to 18 months it takes for that type of strategy to really catch on and start to feel the momentum underneath you is that the podcast has to be giving you energy back the whole time.

You have to genuinely enjoy the conversations that you’re having, the relationships that you’re building with the guests that you have on the show – so you have to get really strategic about who you’re bringing on – and then you have to actually be working behind the scenes to turn those relationships into a strategic referral network.

With our clients that do a much better job of doing that, they get those quick wins along the way because they’ll get a referral from a guest, or they’ll get a speaking engagement because somebody they brought on the show runs an event or something like that. So, they’ll get those quick wins along the way.

To me, that’s where your podcast gives you energy back. If all you’re doing is showing up and expending energy and you’re not seeing a very, very direct link between people handing you a check because of your podcast, the podcast might start off fun, but then it starts to taper off. It starts to get un-fun. To me, that’s why people lose the consistency. It’s not that they’re not serious; it’s that the podcast isn’t giving back to them and isn’t creating those quick wins along the way.

ROB: You talk about the referral – you’re talking about an actual referral that turns into business?

MATT: Yeah, exactly. What we teach our clients to do, in especially the first year – because we’re booking the guests for them. We’re bringing on two influencers a month for them. So, we’re getting very clear with them about who they want to interview, and not just people who would make good content on the show, but who already has the trust and the relationship with your ideal clients. Let’s go find them and let’s bring them onto the show so they have a great experience with you, and they already have those relationships with ideal clients.

So, the referral is already primed. All they have to do is show up and have a good experience with them on the podcast and make sure that the host clearly explains what they do, so the person who’s a guest is equipped to refer them properly.

Yeah, that generates real referrals behind the scenes that turns into real business. It also generates speaking engagements and podcast invitations and all that fun stuff that puts them in front of other audiences, where they can reach another round of ideal clients.

When that stuff is strategic and it’s intentional about exactly the right people, you end up with essentially an informal referral network. After you’ve been running the podcast for a year, you’ve got 25 or 30 people who’ve all had an amazing experience with you as a guest or a host. They know who you are, they know what you do, they know who your ideal client is, and they already have relationships with people in that world. So, it’s only a matter of time and relationship until those start to turn into referrals and the referrals turn into actual closed business.

ROB: I’m sure you’ve got some processes for this. It seems like a bit of a tricky tactic. How and when in the conversation of getting together with someone for a podcast do you explain the business you do and the type of typical client? How do you do that artfully rather than – there’s ways to do this where it can seem probably a little bit crass or quid pro quo.

MATT: Yeah, you definitely want to avoid – the quid pro quo is an internal thing. As long as you’re not thinking that way, it’s hard to come off inauthentic in that way.

Ideally, you want to have that one to two sentences that’s a very clear and compelling idea of what you do, so that you can casually drop it either in conversation behind the scenes, or even when you’re talking about it on the podcast, so the guest gets a sense of what you do and they get the most powerful, condensed, well-presented version of it, without you really trying to shoehorn it into the conversation.

That’s the best way to do it. Now, I will say this: behind the scenes, whether it’s before or after, almost always it’s going to come up. If you have your one to two sentences really nailed down and you’re interviewing the right guest, the response should be, “Oh, holy cow! Really? That’s what you do? Okay, we need to have another conversation.”

In the early days, when I was just hosting a show in real estate and I was producing some shows behind the scenes, I would reach out to people and book them on the show. They would ask me what I do. I’m like, “I host the show, and then we have a production team behind the scenes that produces weekly podcasts for other business coaches, like in real estate.” They’d go, “Seriously? We need to have another conversation. I’ve been thinking about launching a podcast for 6 months and I don’t know how to do it.”

So, if those one to two sentences are right – I didn’t have to really go out of my way to shoehorn it into the conversation. It came up inevitably, and I had the right message-to-market fit to where they wanted. They would tell me, “Hey, we need to have another conversation.” If that’s not happening, then maybe you’re just reaching out to the wrong guests.

ROB: I like that “message-to-market fit” phrase. That’s really solid.

If someone’s coming at this podcast thing – a lot of people really don’t know how to do it. That’s a genuine question that people have. What are some of the elements in the front of the scene, guest-facing, that make for a great experience for the guest? And then what goes on behind the scenes, production-wise, to make a good episode and overall series of podcasts?

MATT: I do think people get really hung up on the actual interview itself, which is why I don’t tell anybody to think of it as an interview, first of all.

If you show up and you’re thinking about it in the context of a conversation, that we’re going to have a conversation that used to just be behind the scenes, and it’s the kind of conversation that we would have in the hallways at the next HubSpot conference, but we’re going to have it over a microphone – but it’s the same conversation – that takes a lot of pressure off the guest. It takes a lot of pressure off of you as the host.

And it changes the dynamic of the conversation. They’re not expecting to show up and be interviewed, Barbara Walters style. They’re already assuming “this is going to be a free-flowing conversation where the host says just as much as I do and has their own opinions,” and that’s the way it should be. So that goes a long way.

Then there’s simple things like just making sure that you have a good booking process in place, that the guest is equipped with everything as soon as to when they first agreed to do it as possible. Hopefully when they say “yes” and you lock the date down, the first thing that should happen is that a calendar invitation goes out that has all the details and the links built into it. That’s the ideal.

Now, not everybody does that. Some people run a live show and the link goes out that morning, and that’s fine. But if you’re recording – like you and I are recording behind the scenes. We’re not live. The link was built into the calendar appointment. Perfect.

I showed up, I looked at my calendar this morning, I’m like, “Okay, I know exactly who the host is, I know what the podcast is, I’ve got the link, I know how long it’s going to go and what we’re going to talk about.” Everything was built into the calendar appointment perfectly. That made me as a podcast guest feel like, “Okay, I got this.”

It’s really simple things, but it’s not anything that people don’t already know. It’s just building good systems behind the scenes so that you actually take good intentions and execute on them. Everybody intends to have that system really seamless; it’s just about building the checklist for your people behind the scenes so that it actually happens.

ROB: Right. I think a lot of people look at all those things they would like to do, and then they realize that maybe they want to do it, but they don’t do it, or they’re just not process-driven. How do you look at all of these different podcasts you’re producing, all these different clients, and ensure that the right things happen each time? I imagine you don’t do all of that.

MATT: No. I built the system, and I am more systems- and process-driven. I actually enjoy the process of creating systems. I know that that in itself is a copout answer, but it is true. For people that aren’t like that – which, by the way, is all of my clients, so I know this firsthand – if you don’t consider yourself process-driven but you know you need to have processes in your business, there’s two things that I think might be helpful.

Number one is to start the process by just brain dumping on Zoom or Loom or something like that to where it’s not about building a system and building a checklist; it’s just about getting the information out of your head and documented somehow.

From there, either you can go back and watch the video and turn the brain dump into a checklist, or there are services – you can have your VA or an assistant do it. There’s actually a VA service I ran into where their VAs are trained on how to do this. They’re trained on process and systems documentation. They can take the video where you brain dump and they can turn it into a checklist.

If you’ve got someone like that in your team, or if you pay somebody like that freelance to do it, to me that’s the best, fastest way to create systems if you’re not a systems person. Jump on video, have somebody ask you questions, and you just brain dump on them. Then behind the scenes, they take that and turn it into a checklist. Between those two things, the checklist and the tutorial video, that’s how we’ve systematized and streamlined the entire agency.

I learned that from my mentor at my old agency, and they have 550 or something like that recurring clients on the same marketing program. And their staff is paid somewhere between $10 and $15 an hour. These are not people that can go out and build systems from scratch. They follow systems. That’s exactly how they did it. Tutorial systems and checklists.

ROB: That’s pretty fantastic. We’ve had some great experiences like that, even in our sales process. I gave one of our assistants a 1-hour video of me just cranking through a bunch of scheduling and said, “Use this, document this. I don’t want to think about it for a while.”

One thing – I don’t really worry about it because I’m not as much of a process guy, but I worry about a little bit, is when you have smart people who are doing some of that. Some of them may be junior, but they may still have a lot to offer and a lot of growth. They may even be later qualified to do even more for you. When folks are working with checklists, how do you feed back their thinking of how to do it even better? How do you ensure that you’re not just being a dictator in the cloud?

MATT: I think it comes down to regular meetings. It’s funny; I was working with my business coach about this, and he stumbled across this book from like 1916. This is like the Peter Drucker before Peter Drucker was Peter Drucker. He gave me this book, assigned me this book to read. So I read it.

Essentially, the fundamentals of business have not changed. It’s planning and reporting and weekly meetings in between. You plan on the front side, report on the back side with real metrics, and then regular weekly meetings in between.

Somebody figured this out 100 years ago, that the best way to run a factory was you get all of your 5 or 10 core leaders, you make everybody show up in the same room and report their metrics, and every week you have them tell everybody in front of all their peers what’s going on, what projects they’re working on, what their metrics are. That straightens that kind of stuff out. It takes things that would normally be hidden and puts them out into the light. It just shines the light on everything.

So even with a virtual team, that’s what we do. But then also, one of my team members is tasked with being the special projects coordinator. When we have a project that we want to take on that we feel like will improve the service, everybody gets a chance to give an opinion on what that would be.

Once we decide on what the project is, then that person runs with that project, pulls the resources together. They have the right to go to any of our other team members and ask for help or suggestions or input or whatever. But we have one person that becomes the champion of that project to implement that improvement into the system, and that’s helping. At one point, that was me. Now I’m getting that responsibility off of my plate.

But I do think, yeah, it can’t just be all of our responsibility, because then it becomes no one’s. If you have one person that has that responsibility for pushing the project forward, then everybody knows, “this is the person that I go to, and I know that my input is valued because we just took Dave’s suggestion last week and we implemented it into the system.” So everybody feels like “even if my idea wasn’t the one that won out this time, everybody knows I can have a direct, tangible impact on what the systems look like.”

ROB: That sounds like very good leadership development and culture reinforcement as well.

MATT: I mean, I hope so. Leadership is one of my favorite topics. [laughs] I think my business coach asked me a while back why I don’t just shut down an agency and be a highly paid consultant or have just one assistant. That question bothered me for a little while because I couldn’t answer it right away.

It took like two weeks for it to finally dawn on me, and it was leadership. I felt like if I did that, even if I made more money and even if my life was easier, I felt like the reason that I would do that would be to run from the leadership challenge.

ROB: It is an interesting comment that many of these principles of doing these things well are 100 years old. But we still keep learning these things again and again. As I understand it, a lot of the reduction in patient mortality in hospitals is “doctors should wash their hands” and stuff like that that we learned that they should do every single time.

Not so many years ago, a book at least some people like a good bit, Checklist Manifesto, came through. People read it and said, “Hey, that’s great, but it sounds like 100-years-ago knowledge pulled forward.”

MATT: Yeah. I would say in response to that, are you using it? Especially in this world that we live in now, we’re so obsessed with the latest tactic. We spend so much time seeking out the information that we don’t implement what we already know.

ROB: Absolutely. You’ve mentioned some things you’ve learned along the way. What are some things you’ve been learning as you’re building Pursuing Results that if you started over today, you would’ve done a little bit differently along the way?

MATT: One of the things that I’m working on now that I wish I would’ve implemented a million years ago is making it crystal clear what metric everyone is responsible for and really siloing the roles out as much as possible.

It used to be that I would bring people on and they would do whatever seven things needed to be done that I felt like they had the capability and the skills to do. Now I’m kind of flipping the thinking on that. I’m thinking from the perspective of what’s going to grow the business and what makes the operations run like clockwork. What is the metric that’s tied to that, and then can I assign that to one person?

I didn’t have that level of clarity on it a couple years ago. I just started with the question of how I can separate out the roles a little bit so that the lines of responsibility are clearer. That was the beginning of that journey, and that helped raise the quality. Having more people do fewer things and work part-time hours was better than having full-time people show up and do more things, even though I theoretically had 100% of their undivided attention.

I wish that wasn’t the case, because I would love to run a smaller agency with fewer people – right now we have like 10 people and 3 interns – but human nature. For whatever reason, people have only a few mental buckets. I would love to just keep it to where they know, “For Matt and his team, this is the one thing I’m responsible for.” Our account managers know, the one thing I wake up every morning wondering if they’re doing is just, are we getting the episode out on time, by the appointed time, for every client that’s in your pod?

All of the other metrics that we track in the business are only supportive of that one metric, which is almost like a QB completion percentage. “9 for 10, great. What happened to the tenth one? What happened to the incomplete pass?” “Well, we don’t have material to work on.” “Great, what can we do about that?”

So they know, this is the one metric. The other metrics are supportive of that one metric, and they’re held accountable to that one metric, as opposed to “I show up 40 hours a week and whatever Matt tells me to do fills those hours.” So I’m trying to move more towards the metrics-based.

I wish I would’ve figured that out years ago, because it probably would’ve made my life easier. It would’ve made running the business a lot easier, and I think it would’ve clouded up my mind a lot less, if that makes sense. I think we just feel like we have a lot of stuff going on in our head, and I think it’s a lot of times because we just won’t get it down to that level of clarity where we can tell somebody else, “This is the one thing I’m holding you accountable to.”

ROB: Yeah, it’s funny you mention that. I’ve noticed this accidentally. It almost has felt comical as I bring more and more people into our process, but then I have people who are virtual for me also managing the process. So the additional people are almost blind to me. We have one person that is transcribing, and they’re ridiculous at it, one person is editing, one person is booking, one person is writing the episode summary and whatnot.

It sounds overwhelming, and it would overwhelm me if I were doing it all. I think it might overwhelm one person, if I gave it all to them. They’d be tripping all over themselves. But because it becomes this, as you said, this content pipeline, it doesn’t feel that way. And I’m not a process guy by any stretch.

MATT: [laughs] Yeah. Dude, I don’t know how you do that and not be a process guy. I think part of the way that I wrangle it in my head is I’m a process guy and so I trust my processes, and then I trust good people to run them.

But to have that level of trust and to not be a process guy, you must have somebody else on your team that is a good process person, or you discipline yourself for just long enough to get the processes in place and then hold other people accountable to them. Both approaches work.

ROB: It’s definitely the latter. I am a person who – I think a lot of people enjoy the benefits of process, even if they don’t like – what people don’t like are dumb rules. But when it comes to getting the benefits of process, you like if you go to a restaurant and every time, they have a great hamburger, and they make the same great hamburger every time. You don’t like if it’s kind of different at different times. We all like the benefits of process.

MATT: Yeah, exactly. I heard something – one of my clients was telling me that Starbucks has a secret shopper program where they’ll go in and order drinks, and then they’ll go out and weigh it in their car. If it’s outside the margin of error, then that store is docked. Which is insane, because you can walk into a coffee shop at Starbucks and I can literally get the same iced coffee I get in San Diego in Australia or Florida or whatever, and it’s the same thing. And it’s all run by a bunch of 18- to 27-year-olds. There’s no way, without all those processes and checklists and all that stuff, that anybody could pull that off.

But what drives that is that right there. It’s the checklist on the front side, the reporting on the back side, and the meetings in between. It all comes down to the same three fundamentals we’ve known about since pottery factories were a thing. [laughs] It’s all the same stuff, because people haven’t changed.

ROB: And you know Starbucks does not have a process around correctly spelling and pronouncing people’s names.

MATT: They do not. Sadly, there’s only so much we can do with Generation Z.

ROB: [laughs] Matt, one thing I heard you mention that we certainly don’t do, and I think people wonder about, but it also sounds like it makes things harder, is the video component. Where do you see video being important in having a podcast, and how much does it really, when you have the processes in place, increase the complexity or not?

MATT: I think if you have the right processes in place and a dedicated video editor, it doesn’t increase the complexity hardly at all. At least now. I’m a little bit biased because I came to podcasting not because I was a huge podcasting fan, but because I was doing live video. It was webinars first, and then we were one of the first podcasts that got access to Facebook live, before anybody else like BlueJeans or Zoom did. We were working with a startup out of LA that had the first integration.

So, I was always on live video, and I saw the benefits of that. I saw it in my YouTube channels. I learned how to optimize YouTube channels to catch genuine, authentic SEO. We put 4,000 organic leads through YouTube in a couple years, maybe, without really even trying very hard. It was not even really part of a genuine SEO strategy.

I’m a huge proponent. I think podcasting as a term might even go away, but what we all need is a show. To me, a show starts with video, because the benefits of that are so good for relationship-building. I want to look somebody in the eye and see their body language and stuff. So. to me, I recommend that all my clients record their podcast on Zoom with video, even if they don’t plan on releasing the video per se, just because the relationship they build with the guest is qualitatively better.

So, I’m a big fan of video. Big, big proponent. It’s built into our standard package for all of our clients. A couple of them choose not to take advantage of it; everybody else does, because they agree with that same point of view, which is part of the reason you run a podcast is to build relationships with people. You just build better, deeper relationships when you’re on video with them.

And then you just turn it into a podcast behind the scenes, and it’s another option for the way the audience can get that content. If they want it in audio only, great. You want to listen to us at the gym, awesome. But hopefully there’s a way that you can also see us, because we want to build that trust.

To me, that’s why it’s that blend. Every thought leader needs a show, and then the show gets distributed in different ways.

ROB: It is fascinating that even the clients of yours who just take the video and throw it in the virtual trash, their podcast is almost certainly better for having done the video. That’s what I’m hearing you say.

MATT: Yeah, exactly. And the podcast produces better results in terms of generating referrals and relationships and speaking invitations and stuff like that, because they’re building better, deeper, faster relationships with the people that they bring on as guests.

ROB: Fantastic. Matt, that’s a good whirlwind tour, furious. Appreciate your results, your process, and sharing some of your deepest secrets. When people want to find you and Pursuing Results, where should they go to find you?

MATT: Easiest place is, of course, you can go to http://pursuingresults.com, learn about the production service.

If you want to get featured, if you’re starting out on that journey, I don’t recommend that everybody starts a podcast right out of the gate. I think the better option is to go out and get interviewed and see if you like the format, start to nail down your message and what you want to talk about, and build a network of other podcast hosts that know who you are and can send you referrals.

So I always recommend that people start by getting featured first. I would go to http://howtogetfeatured.com. I did a training there with a client on how to craft your story hook so that when you reach out to podcast hosts and you tell them what you’d like to share on their show, it resonates with them.

You mentioned that you like the message-to-market fit. It’s basically about how to get exactly that. If you’re going to go out and be a guest on other people’s shows and you want to pitch them, how do you make sure you have the right message-to-market fit? That’s what that training is about. So that’s at http://howtogetfeatured.com.

ROB: Fantastic. Thank you so much, Matt. Good to have you on the podcast.

MATT: Thanks, Rob. Appreciate it.

ROB: Take care.

Thank you for listening. The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast is presented by Converge. Converge helps digital marketing agencies and brands automate their reporting so they can be more profitable, accurate, and responsive. To learn more about how Converge can automate your marketing reporting, email info@convergehq.com, or visit us on the web at convergehq.com.

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