When the Agency Outgrows its Name and its Geography

primitive

Kade Wilcox, CEO and Owner of Primitive Social, was working at a church when he started managing business Facebook pages in 2011 as a “side gig.” Two to three years into this work, a friend challenged him by labelling his Facebook work as “a hobby.” It was time for some planning, goal-setting, and business “underpinnings.”

Some 5 years later, Primitive Social offers a far broader range of services, including custom software development; custom designed and developed websites; content marketing; a full inbound marketing, lead gen, marketing technology setup and implementation; social media management; and creative work—end to end business solutions that address customer needs. Primitive Social addresses marketing issues and the heavy tech solutions that can make a business’s internal organization more effective and efficient Expected revenues in 2018 should come in around $4 million.

In this interview, Kade talks about the quandary a company can face when it “outgrows its name.” Primitive Social? What about all the other things his company does? Kade feels his company needs a new name to convey the broader scope of what his company now has to offer. But, if he changes the name, how does he maintain the value of his brand and the goodwill his company has earned through the years?

Primitive Social is headquartered in Lubbock Texas, which, in 2018, had a reported population of 252,506. That’s not a lot of people if you want to keep a company growing. In addition to the limited number of potential clients in the Lubbock area for the services the agency offers, Kade has found the Lubbock area to be slower that other parts of the country in adopting technology and digital solutions. In order to grow, the company has had to “develop a presence” in other locations.

Lubbock is also not a hotbed of creative talent. Kade likes to hire local, but when local talent ran out, what could he do? He did not want to restrain his company’s growth. He did not want to limit the company on what it could do to serve clients. or the quality of the work. He did not want to expand by investing in brick-and-mortar in new locations. Solution? He hired remote employees. Today, twenty of his 50 employees work remotely from other parts of the country.

Kade notes that it takes thought, intention, and consistency to make sure remote employees are allowed to contribute to the corporate culture. He has had to make an extra effort “to create opportunities for organic communication and getting to know people.” Although having remote employees has not worked perfectly, Kade describes it as being “a blast.” Future company direction? Kade intends for the company to simplify what it is doing and what it is leveraging to accomplish success for its clients . . . and go deep.

Based on his experience, Kade identifies some of the lessons he learned (the hard way):

  1. It’s better to grow slowly with the right client at the right place than to grow rapidly with the wrong client at the wrong price.
  2. Think about how you are growing as you are growing . . . How do we think about growth? What do we do with our growth? Who are we? Who do we want to be? How are we going to get there?
  3. Don’t focus on the growth of gross revenue—focus on the growth of profit.

Kade can be reached on his company website at: primitivesocial.com

ROB: Welcome to the Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m your host, Rob Kischuk, and I am joined today by Kade Wilcox, CEO and Owner of Primitive Social based in Lubbock, Texas. Welcome to the podcast, Kade.

KADE: Hey, thanks for having me. I really appreciate you.

ROB: Fantastic to have you on the podcast. Why don’t you start off by telling us about Primitive Social and what makes Primitive Social great?

KADE: Sure. We’re a digital solutions company. What we say about ourselves is, we craft digital solutions for the measured success of our clients. As we’ve grown and as we’ve evolved, we’ve really tried to focus on that: creating solutions and strategy that really measure the success and impact that we have for our customers.

We do a lot of custom software development, a lot of custom design developed websites, a tremendous amount of content marketing, full inbound marketing, lead gen, and marketing technology setup and implementation, and a lot of social media, creative work, etc., etc.

ROB: That’s quite an interesting range of services. I think one thing that would be very unique there is the ability to do both lead gen and content marketing all the way through to custom software development. What do you think it is that enables you to offer that range? Because a lot of times the marketer can’t do some of that heavy tech stuff you’re talking about.

KADE: Right. We feel like one of the things that makes us unique, even if it’s just an aspirational differentiator, is really understanding a business. Not starting with the premise or in a position of marketing first, but really understanding the business. What are their business goals? What challenges are they facing as an organization? What aspirations or opportunities are they trying to capitalize on in the future? And then creating solutions that really enable the customer to do those things.

Sometimes that doesn’t mean social media. Sometimes that doesn’t mean a website. Sometimes that doesn’t mean content marketing. So. as we’ve developed this business model for ourselves, we’ve wanted to work really hard on creating solutions that bring tremendous value to what the business needs are, and consequently that’s helped us become more diversified.

I guess the last thing I would say about that is it’s really an end-to-end solution, if you think about it. A lot of our businesses that we work with have really terrible products that they’re utilizing internally to run their business. Oftentimes they’re using more than one product, oftentimes they’re only using a certain percentage of that product, and oftentimes they’re very expensive.

If we can help make their operations and their internal organization more effective and efficient, it just contributes to the overall health of the business and helps them continue to move in a direction of success. So that’s our position on it and what we’ve tried to do.

ROB: For sure. One of those difficult decisions that many business owners face is – there are certain things you have said “yes” to because they are strategically aligned; what are maybe some services that people have come to you asking for where you have had to learn over time to maybe say “no” to, and even walk away from what might be a good opportunity because it’s not what you’re great at?

KADE: That’s a really good question. A lot of events-based stuff. I still think a good deal of people think of marketing in terms of “feel good” marketing, so things that they see on their own and feel good about, but it doesn’t actually have a necessarily positive impact on their business.

The types of “feel good” marketing or tactics that we’ve shied away from and don’t have any expertise or desire to have expertise in would be things like event planning, a lot of your traditional marketing tactics, to be honest with you – billboards and TV and radio. We shy away from anything that would look, feel, and smell like traditional marketing – not because there’s not elements of that that may be appropriate for a business. Again, it’s all based on the goals and objectives and budget and a lot of variables.

But for us, it’s just not our skillset, so we’ve had to say “no” a lot. Which is hard, because when you’re in sales and you’ve got the responsibility to grow a business, a lot of times you’re driven by this sense of urgency. It’s a little bit more difficult to think practically and wisely when you’re turning down revenue. It’s a great question.

ROB: Got it. If we rewind a little bit back in time, what led you to start Primitive Social in the first place? How did it come to be?

KADE: It’s a really long story, so I’ll try to condense it down into like 30-60 seconds. Basically, my wife and I were running a kids’ camp out in the middle of nowhere. Had our first kid, decided that we wanted to move closer to a community instead of the isolation of out in the middle of nowhere, and we ended up moving to Lubbock, where we live now.

I took a job working at a church, actually, and took a significant pay cut. I wanted to take the job and we wanted to move to Lubbock, but I didn’t want to live on $40,000 a year, so we set out to try to figure out a way to make some supplemental income.

Again, long story short, but my wife is a really, really good content developer. She’s always been a great writer, great storyteller. One of my best friends had this idea at the time, in 2011, “What if you pitched small businesses on managing their Facebook?” At the time in 2011 – you probably remember this too – Facebook was nothing like what we have now. No ads, no video, no photos, no public figure pages or business pages. It was almost like a static newsfeed.

So we pitched our first business. It was a hospital in a rural community, and they went for it. We were like, “This is amazing!” We started out just managing businesses’ Facebook pages, basically. Did that organically for 2 or 3 years.

That same best friend of mine called what we were doing a hobby. At the time, 2 to 3 years into our “business,” it was not thoughtful. We had no sales goals, we had no team. There was no systems and processes, no real strategy. It was literally just supplemental income.

Well, he called it a hobby. I’m very competitive. When he called what I saw as a real business a hobby, it really pissed me off. But as I reflected on it, I’m like, you know what? He’s right. It’s just a hobby. We have no staff, we have no sales goals, we have no idea how to build a business. So, at that point, in late 2013, we did just that. We started setting goals, we started hiring people, and we started really developing what has become a legitimate business.

In the last 3-½ to 4 years, now we have nearly 50 employees. This year we’ll do just under $4 million in revenue. We’ve done a lot of things really well over the last 3 or 4 years as we’ve rapidly grown, and we’ve done a lot of things that are really stupid [laughs] and really hard, and have at times put us in difficult positions. It’s been a blast. But that’s kind of, in a nutshell, our story.

ROB: In a city like Lubbock, a 50 person independent agency has got to be probably one of the bigger shops in town?

KADE: Yes, I would say that. That is true. We have roughly 20 or so remote employees all over the country, and then the rest of us are here in Lubbock. Even if you just took the team that we have here geographically located in Lubbock, we’re pretty big. But when you add on our full-time team members who work remotely all over the country, we’re definitely, as it relates to this industry, certainly one of the bigger ones.

ROB: 20 remote employees out of 50 is sort of a lot. Was that always part of the DNA of the company? Is that something you’ve always been comfortable with, or did you need to have that idea grow on you, and what brought you around? And how do you manage that now?

KADE: Really great questions. We’re really committed to our sense of place. The honest truth would be that if we moved to Denver or Dallas or some other metro area – it’s not easy to grow or run or scale a business anywhere. I don’t want to make it sound like someone in Denver or Dallas or Salt Lake City or Boston or Atlanta – I mean, it’s hard running and growing and scaling a business, period. No matter where you’re at. It’s really hard to do that when you’re in a geographical location that’s a little slower to adopt technology and digital solutions and things like that.

All that to say, we’re really, really committed to our sense of place, but we recognized that at some point we’d kind of outkick our overage and opportunity here in Lubbock. We felt like that was true in two ways.

Number one is the type of customers that our company serves. There definitely are a handful in Lubbock, but not a lot. So, if we’re going to want to continue to grow and develop our company, we’re going to have to develop a presence in other places.

The second thing is we’re very, very committed to hiring local talent. But in the absence of that local talent, we had to create a solution, obviously, so that we didn’t stunt our growth or stunt our ability to really excel and overserve a customer. So. at that point we started thinking, okay, what’s this look like? We didn’t have the money to start building physical offices, so to speak, in major cities, so we elected to go the remote route.

It’s been remarkable. Certainly hard. Probably the hardest part about having a remote teammate is that you have to be exceptionally thoughtful and intentional and consistent in allowing them to contribute to your culture. That has been difficult. You have to go out of your way to facilitate and to create opportunities for organic communication and questions and getting to know people.

We went that route because we never wanted to limit ourselves on the type of talent that we were able to serve our customers with, so that’s what originally instigated it. But it’s been a blast. We haven’t done it perfectly; we’ve dropped the ball a lot. But I think that we’re getting better, if not really good, at having remote teammates and figuring out communication and all the nuances that go into that.

ROB: Right on. I think you mentioned at the beginning that you had largely focused on small businesses and social and that sort of thing. How has the client profile shifted over time? Is that still what it is, or have you found perhaps moving upstream to a little bit bigger clients has been the direction of things?

KADE: It’s definitely shifted. One of the things we’ve really wrestled with is literally changing our name, because especially locally, people think Primitive Social – well, really everywhere. Even when I run into people in other places and they start asking about your company, they can’t get over the “social” in your name. They think of you as a social media company.

We certainly have a lot of customers where we just manage their social, but the vast majority of our revenue comes from a very diversified kind of customer, and that is people that we’re comprehensively helping in terms of their digital strategy, whether that’s software, web, and inbound marketing, all of that or a combination of it. Most of our customers are doing multiple things as it relates to digital marketing and creating digital solutions to help grow their business.

That’s the profile. The profile of our ideal customer and a lot of our customers is people who have real business needs or real business challenges that they’re trying to solve, so we create a comprehensive solution to either help them accomplish that business goal or solve that business challenge.

ROB: Do you have a different name that you are presenting to some people, or are you just working with it as it is and working through that?

KADE: We’re literally trying to work through it. In fact, maybe you should spend the rest of the podcast advising me on your own thoughts on this. [laughs]

But yeah, we’re literally in the middle of trying to figure it out, thinking through the merits of changing it and the challenges of changing it and what kind of consequences it has, what kind of work goes into all the organic value we’ve created in our own content marketing, where we lose things, where we gain things, what’s the impact on your existing customers.

It’s a really difficult thing. To be honest, where we’re at right now is we feel like it’s really important to change our name and change our story because who we are now is not remotely close to who we were 7 years ago when we came up with our brand. On the flipside, we don’t want to overthink it. At the end of the day, it’s about developing relationships with people, building trust, really understanding their business, and then delivering results – regardless of what your name is.

So yeah, it’s a hard thing, and we’re working through all those different angles currently. But we definitely don’t position ourselves as someone else right now to certain types of clients. We’re Primitive Social and this is what we do, and we have to work extra hard to make that clear as we’re trying to pursue the customers that we want to work with.

ROB: Got it. It’s certainly interesting also as social itself has evolved, because in 2011 social was new and it was novel and people felt like they needed it, and then there was perhaps this phase of disillusionment, and now certainly even very serious marketers need to spend money on paid social ads.

Where do you find your customers are on this continuum of publishing content, publishing organically versus this much more sophisticated and targeted advertising-based approach to social?

KADE: That’s a really good point. I think that initial phase you talked about was kind of like the wild frontier. Everyone was excited to start dabbling in it, so it was a bit more fun back then, in my opinion.

Now I almost feel like it’s a necessary evil. [laughs] It’s so cluttered and it’s so messy, and it’s got all these really interesting political ramifications and cultural ramifications. It’s like this anonymous megaphone, so to speak, where there’s no consequence to saying and doing whatever you want. I think all those types of dynamics have made it very interesting for businesses. I think it’s made it way more challenging.

And then you take into consideration what all the platforms have done from an ad revenue standpoint, where they’ve really changed their game, where there’s dang near not any such thing as organic reach anymore and organic progress. I think you put it well in the sense that it’s almost an ad platform now. It’s not so much engaging and communicating and connecting as much now as it is who can play a better game from an ad perspective. The dynamics have shifted a lot.

For us, it really just depends on the business and their audience in terms of how we leverage social to reach their goals. It went from, in the early days, in our opinion, being a main catalyst to success to now just being one of multiple things that you have to be really, really good at in order to create progress and create results.

ROB: Very interesting. I think it’s interesting to consider – and Google has certainly evolved their ad products as well – but for more visual products, I think social and paid social still offer maybe a superior experience to put your product in front of a customer as compared to pay-per-click, which is sort of the old school prevailing paid digital media platform.

Shifting gears a little bit here, Kade, what are a couple of things you’ve learned from your experience in building Primitive Social that you would do differently if you were starting over, let’s say now, 7 years later?

KADE: Thanks for asking that. We’re living through this right now, so it’s very fresh in my mind.

One of the biggest mistakes we made over the last 7 years is just strictly focusing on the growth of our gross revenue. This might sound really silly to your listeners, but we just got caught up in this weird process of only focusing on gross revenue in our growth. It’s like, “If we continue our growth pattern year over year over year and we go from $100,000 a year in 2014 to $4 million in 2018, we’re going to be okay.” That was completely misguided.

What I wish we would’ve done, and what I would do if we were starting over, is forget the vanity metrics and just focus on profit. Are we actually profitable? Forget how fast we’re growing, forget the number of employees we have, forget the number of clients we have, all these things that sound good and feel good to say out loud, and really focus on organizational health and really focus on profitability.

So that’s one thing that I would definitely do over again if we could start over, and certainly something moving forward that we’re going to be hyper-focused on.

Second thing that we’ve learned and are really trying to work hard on is the right client at the right price. I’m a salesperson, so I’m responsible for 100% of our sales, more or less. As a salesperson, what I’ve noticed about myself is that I just want to win. I just want a notch in my belt. I’ll go after anything and everything if I can move it over into the CRM as one – and that’s really hurt us.

It’s helped us in the sense that we’ve grown and we’re generating a lot of revenue, but it’s hurt us in the sense that I’ve brought on a lot of customers for our team to serve that are the wrong client at the wrong price. That’s been a huge mistake.

It’s better to grow slowly with the right client at the right place than to grow rapidly with the wrong client at the wrong price. Again, this might sound silly to your listeners, but when you’re caught up in the fray of growing your business, sometimes you lose sight of the really practical, generally healthy things.

Another thing I would say is the right people in the right place. My favorite thing about running and growing a business is hiring people. I love it. I love hiring people. I love being responsible for supporting a family. Consequently, in my excitement, we’ve gotten in a big hurry oftentimes of hiring people, and at really no fault of their own, we’ve hired a lot of wrong people and then put them in the wrong place. You can imagine the disaster that creates for customer attention and to developing a healthy internal culture and organizational health and happiness.

I could keep going for a long time. [laughs] But those three things right there are really, really, really big lessons that we’ve learned over the last 2 years and are really trying to focus on as we imagine who we want to be and where we want to go over the next 2 to 3 years.

ROB: You particularly mentioned that your wife also works in the business, so I would imagine that any financial constraints that you put on the business might actually threaten both of your incomes. Is that fair?

KADE: Yeah, that’s good insight. A little bit of the backstory is for the first 3 years of our company’s history, really from 2011 to 2014, it was more or less just my wife and I.

When we started really growing the business, about that same time in 2014, one of the best things that’s ever happened to us is we met my now business partner, Jared. Not only is he our friend, but we own the company 50/50 now. He has a real background in software development and web and all that, so when we partnered in 2014 is when we really started growing as a company. Now my wife contributes to all of our own marketing content on our actual business side. Doesn’t do any more customer-facing stuff.

But you raise a really good point that the success of the business is intricately connected to the success of your family. My own income and our family’s income and what we want for our future is directly tied to our business. To be honest with you, I don’t think we’ve separated those things well enough.

When you’re a small business doing a couple hundred thousand dollars a year and you’ve got – this is an arbitrary number, but let’s say you’ve got three to five employees, you’re doing $200,000 or $300,000 in revenue – I think it’s genuinely okay to have a lifestyle business where your personal life and your business are intricately connected, mainly because at that size you’re still probably touching every level of the work that you’re offering your customer.

But what happens at some point – and it’s different for every business, but what happens at some point, when you go from that really small business, lifestyle business, to a multimillion dollar company responsible for 20, 30, 40, 50 employees, is you have to make a mental shift from, “This is my company built for my own personal gain” to “I have stakeholders now,” even if you own 100% of the company.

We didn’t make that transition very well. I think that’s another thing that we would do differently. You ask a great question; it is connected. But I think mentally, we’ve had to work really hard to view this as a real business beyond just what it does for us, because there’s a lot of people depending on us. We have businesses spending really hard-earned money for us to help them grow their business. We have employees who are getting married and growing their families, who are buying homes, and that’s a real responsibility for us.

So ,I think separating that in your mind and in your business practice is exceptionally important, and I don’t think we’ve done that as well as what we intend on doing moving forward.

ROB: It certainly is a real business now, so congratulations on that part.

KADE: Thank you.

ROB: Early on, you mentioned you had this focus on growth in gross revenue. One thing we’ve started talking about on this podcast is some of the things that you think you know or you’ve been told or taught when you start a business that you find you have to unlearn as you move down the process of building a company. Where do you think that focus on growth in gross revenue came from, and what was it that allowed you to shift your perspective on that?

KADE: I have no business background. I never worked in a business, never ran a business, never started a business, didn’t go to business school, barely graduated from college. [laughs] Read very few business books. I think the urgency to grow and the desire to grow was really just my own sheer competitiveness. I love to work, I love to work hard, and I love being competitive. That really fueled, I think, this “grow, grow, grow, grow” mentality.

Again, just being transparent, I think I got caught up in what we’ve started calling vanity metrics. When someone says, “Hey, how’s business going?” and you can say, “Great, we’re going to do $2 million this year and we have 33 employees,” that impresses nearly everybody. That’s really shallow, and I recognize that, but that is, I think for a lot of us, what happens.

I think honestly, as a leader, I got caught up in that. I got caught up in the “public perception” of your business’s success and health and growth. As people got more and more impressed with that, it just fueled my desire to be more enamored with those vanity metrics. So when you say, “What shaped your focus on growth in gross revenue?”, genuinely I think that’s what it was.

To answer the second part of your question, what’s helped us shift our mindset is really out of necessity. A business only works that way for so long before profitability becomes a really, really important thing.

What instigated it over the last 6 or 7 months for us is we started losing customers. For the first 6 years of our business, we hardly ever lost customers, genuinely. I mean, we would lose a handful every once in a while. But one of the things that contributed to us growing so rapidly is we were adding a lot of customers and we weren’t losing any customers.

What happened – there’s a lot of variables that go into it, but the short of it is we started losing customers. Well, when you lose the number of customers we have lost over the last 6 to 7 months, it puts you in a tremendous financial burden. When you lose one or two customers here or there, your business absorbs it pretty good. But when, all of a sudden, you start losing sight on your existing customers and you stop serving them well and you start to lose them, when that adds up significantly, it puts you in a major bind.

And that’s what happened, to be honest with you. We lost a lot of customers and a lot of revenue, and the revenue was an amount that made you have to stop and say, what are we doing? What are we doing, what are we not doing, and what are we going to do moving forward?

When we stopped and we really started evaluating things, we recognized that one of the many, many, many benefits of profitability is that when you’re profitable as a business, when you have hard times – and you will; you will always have hard times – your business will always go through cycles. You will always be making mistakes and having to learn from them. What profitability does is it insulates you. It protects you a little bit so that when you do make a dumb decision, when you do go through a rough patch, you can use that profitability to get through the transition.

When you have no profitability, it puts you in a very, very difficult position and you have to start grasping for straws – which then ends up sending you further backwards, because then you start taking on customers you shouldn’t take on. You start making decisions for your business out of a sense of urgency. Panic is probably too strong a word, but you get the idea.

So that’s what made us reevaluate the way we were approaching, how are we growing? How do we think about our growth? What do we do with our growth? It was out of real necessity, to be honest.

And I’m thankful for that. It’s very, very difficult, and you have to make very, very difficult decisions, but in the end I would rather learn those things now at $4 million, because if you get to $10 million – the bigger you get, the harder those consequences get, the harder it is to unravel your decisions, the harder it is to change your habits and behavior. So as difficult as it is, I’m really grateful, to be honest.

ROB: I really appreciate your candor there. I think there’s a lot for those who would listen carefully to learn from in that lesson, especially because running an agency can be a little bit of an island that you’re on. There’s not always as many people to bounce these thoughts off of as we might like.

KADE: I think you’re right. Do you have a second for me to add something to that?

ROB: Please do.

KADE: I think that because people feel like they’re on an island – particularly when they’re small and you don’t have a lot of teammates and you don’t have maybe executive level leaders, you are on an island. You do feel isolated. What I think a lot of people do is they start searching for people to admire, people to learn from, people to follow, people to feel connected to so they don’t feel like they’re on an island.

The problem is when we do that virtually, when we follow that agency’s website that we really like and admire and we follow their social, we get caught in this trap of thinking that everything’s greener on the other side. “They’re hitting grand slams every time they turn around. They must be making tons of money. They must be super happy and not dealing with the things that I’m dealing with” or whatever. It’s really a false narrative.

I think that trap is really, really dangerous for the person who is on an island. I think for the person who feels lonely or for the person that’s’ on an island or the person that doesn’t have anyone to lean into as they grow their business or learn the hard lessons, there are other ways to find that support other than fantasizing about that company or that agency or that leader who they think has all their stuff together.

I just don’t think that’s a real thing, and I think it puts us in a dangerous position. When I have an agency that I really admire and I think, “Oh, they must not be dealing with this” or I’m trying to aspire to be someone we’re not, I think there are a lot of consequences to that. So I think we’ve got to be careful.

ROB: Awesome. That’s super important to listen to. Thank you for sharing that part.

We’ve already talked about how there may be a new brand on the horizon, or a new way of presenting who Primitive Social is to the world. What else is coming up for Primitive Social, or perhaps more broadly for the marketing world, that you think we should be paying attention to that’s exciting to you?

KADE: For our company specifically, we’re just trying to figure out: who are we, who do we want to be, where do we want to go, and how do we get there? It’s really evaluating what our strengths are, and again, trying to reverse-engineer some of the things we’ve done over the last several years. Tactically speaking, in our organization specifically, that’s what we’re really going to focus on and just really work on being a healthy business now and forever.

The second part of the question you asked, to be honest with you, there are so many things in front of digital marketing agencies and agencies in general that it’s like a big mess right now. There are so many things out there, from marketing technology to new ideas to new platforms, marketing automation software, data analytic software.

I’m sure you’ve seen, and everyone that listens to the show, I’m sure you’ve seen the images that float around the internet from time to time, what marketing technology services looked like 5 years ago to 3 years ago to now. It’s almost overwhelming. There’s so many ways to go, so many things to do.

What we’re trying to do and what I think the future looks like, at least in the short term, is really not finding the next shiny gadget, but it’s really simplifying what you’re doing and what you’re leveraging to accomplish success for your clients and going really deep.

I think we’ve gone through this phase and are probably in the middle of it – and who knows how long it’ll last – where people are trying out hundreds of different pieces of software and tools in a variety of ways. I think for us, we’re trying to really, really simplify and go deep in a few tools and a few strategies and really commit to it for a while to see if it works or doesn’t work before we run off and chase the next rabbit.

I think that’s where we’re at. That’s not like Gary Vaynerchuk prophesying over what the future looks like, so sorry for not being as sexy and as compelling, but for us, we think the future is simplifying and going really deep, not becoming more complex. I don’t know if that’s helpful or not.

ROB: I think a focus on profitability and fundamentals is always exciting because it leads to healthy growth. Kade, when people want to find you and Primitive Social, where should they find you?

KADE: Our website right now is by far the best way. People can connect with me personally there. They hopefully can find a tremendous amount of value in our content and help them in their own goals and objectives. Just primitivesocial.com is a really good place to do that. It’s easy to get a hold of me through the website. If there’s a way I could serve someone, go deeper into some of the mistakes we’ve made and are learning from – I’d love to hear from folks if I could be of help.

ROB: That’s fantastic. Kade, thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing your learnings from building Primitive Social. Best wishes that it would continue to be this excellent engine of profitable growth with people in Lubbock and people beyond, as you mentioned. Helping a lot of people live life and have families and you like working with them, and that’s awesome.

KADE: Thanks, man. I appreciate you having me on.

ROB: Quite a pleasure. Take care.

Thank you for listening. The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast is presented by Converge. Converge helps digital marketing agencies and brands automate their reporting so they can be more profitable, accurate, and responsive. To learn more about how Converge can automate your marketing reporting, email info@convergehq.com, or visit us on the web at convergehq.com.

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